We have a 2007 Ford Focus. 44,000 miles (great for the year!). Great mileage. For us, at least - I hypermile, so I always exceed the EPA ratings. EPA ratings are 24/33, but I get 40 in the city. Rebuilt title. Needs tires.
Auto Loan: $3,400 - $136/mo
Auto Ins: $166/mo
Gas: $30/mo
We are contemplating selling. We do not want to, especially with its amazing miles, mileage, and reliability. However, take a look at this (not a pretty sight):
As you can see, this leaves NO wiggle room at all. So, we need to trim the fat! We really cannot part with our phones. They are handy for when we do not have our bulky digital camera with us, and we have a daughter, so we need to capture those moments. It really is a fruitful part of our lives to be able to capture and share those moments, especially with being away from our families.
We could trim out our $32 in treats (Starbucks), which we have had to do before...
Student loans are already deferred, which I hate doing.
Rent cannot be trimmed. Nor can internet.
So that leaves the vehicle...
We have always wanted a VW camper. Why not get one if we do sell the car? If we sell the car for $7,500, we could have $4,100 left over to purchase a bus. Also, we could wait to get a bus while saving up more to get a better one. Good VW camper busses usually start around $4,000, but you should really look at spending $6,000 for one you won't need to do any serious work on for a couple of years. However, if we do end up spending $4,000 (and I have seen a couple of great ones for that price, but not very common), then I am thinking this: We will be saving at least $250/mo with not having to pay for the Focus anymore. So this could help us build a good savings again, since it was almost dwindled when we moved. Would help pay off credit cards we had to use for moving.
Here I am asking... What would you do? We like our car (don't LOVE it, but it is responsible). It is reliable, but if anything happened, we could not afford to fix it now. If we had an older vehicle (like the bus), we could afford repairs when it needed it. We could afford clothes (I am down to two pairs of undergarments and two pairs of socks, and the wife... Oh, man!). We could afford to get more clothes for our daughter (she has like five outfits and no rain-proof clothing; kinda need that here!). It would most likely be much better.
What do you all think?
Oh! One more thing! I have a contact that works on and sells (and know others that do as well) classic VW busses. So we would only be getting into a bus that we knew everything about, and knew what we were getting into.
March 2nd, 2012 at 01:31 pm 1330695060
March 2nd, 2012 at 01:34 pm 1330695267
Ditch the cell phone and get a $50 digital camera to "capture the moments"...
Your car insurance also sounds insanely high.
Do you seriously spend $32/month in milk that tastes like coffee at Starbucks? You can buy 2 months worth of coffee and milk at home for that.
Your math on the car trade makes sense but you will now be trading a 2007 car for a 1970(?) car?
What about the gas mileage on the van?
It sounds like you really want a VW van, cool as they are, and you are trying to find a way to justify it. I know that old VW's can go on forever because you can replace everything on them so you would have to consider the risk of switching to an older car.
March 2nd, 2012 at 02:21 pm 1330698094
Wasn't rent free with this new job?
I'd go prepaid for the phone, buy a camera for pictures, skip ALL star bucks, get internet at the library.
Do not buy a VW van for your primary vehicle. The gas will be so much more and less easy to get parts. This is not the time to buy this type of vehicle.
Can you get a discount on the auto insurance by paying quarterly or semi annually? That might be the better route to go. You still save monthly, but pay the insurer less frequently in return for a discount.
March 2nd, 2012 at 03:31 pm 1330702309
If you can sell your car and get along without it, why not try just being carless? Or, if it would be a huge struggle to get along without it, keep the car and ditch the cellphone bill. I liked the suggestion to get a small digital camera for $50. You can have prepaid cells and if you are diligent about only using them for emergencies, your phone costs could go down to about $30 per month. That would knock $100 off your budget right there. If you managed to increase your income by even a little bit, you'd be saving as much as you would by ditching the car payment.
March 2nd, 2012 at 04:00 pm 1330704057
We can go carless until we find another. That is, we would be riding with friends to go grocery shopping. Not something that could become a routine thing for long. They are busy people as well, like us. We would ride bicycles, but we cannot ride the two miles uphill to the grocery store on bicycles with the baby in-tow (probably not even without her, even). Haha.
I understand that a lot of you do go without phones, or decrease your spending on them. It would be pretty hard for us to do. I have thought about it, believe me. The wife uses hers for her blogging, as well as our digital camera. We use mine for when we are out because of its better camera. Urgh! Such a difficult decision. I KNOW you all are right. But that doesn't make me want them any less.
We have tried reducing our insurance. This is the absolute lowest we can get, unfortunately.
The treats budget is also for other ventures, such as other coffee shops, or cool little places we visit. It is our fun money. Every financial advisor I have ever listened to (TV, podcast, radio, etc.) has said that you have to leave room for fun. Family entertainment is a big deal. $32/mo is what it would be if we got two tall drinks at Starbucks, each weekend. That's not how it goes every month, but that is what we budget for.
I guess I have some serious thinking to do. I need to think outside of my box!
March 2nd, 2012 at 04:01 pm 1330704111
If you are having a hard time affording even the basics such as socks and underwear, you should probably pair down the cell phone bill too...at least until you get back on your feet and/or have a higher income. Try to find a used camera on Craig's list or something...you might be surprised...good luck!
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:06 pm 1330711597
I'll copy and paste what I wrote out there:
I thought you got free rent with your new job as a caretaker?
Why on earth a VW bus? If you want to trade in for a cheaper car that's one thing, but why trade in for a gas guzzling behemoth which is still gonna need tires, gas, and repairs. I understand possibly trying to go WITHOUT a car, or trading down to a beater maybe, but don't understand trading in a car for a bus.
Lastly, if you're keeping your phones just to use as a camera, (and you don't need them as a phone) you can get a digital camera for less than $100. It's a one-time outlay of cash, but there is no ongoing contract. Once you pay for it your're done.
You live where you work now, right? Can you go without a car at all? Makes more sense that buying a bus to me...
BACK IN AGAIN WITH NEW COMMENTS. I agree with what everyone said. Why can't your wife do some work on the side? OR work nights while you are with the kids? Or take in some babysitting kids?
IS the store only 2 miles away? Why can't you walk? Or go twice a month and take a cab.
And I thought that free rent was a perk of this job. If you make $1200 more a month but have to spend almost $1000 on rent now, that's not a very good change.
So I think you should NOT get the bus. I think you should see if you CAN sell your car. I think you need to get a second job or your wife needs to start working somewhere -- fast food, walgreens, ANYWHERE. I think you should nix the cell plan.
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:08 pm 1330711703
I'll copy and paste what I wrote out there:
I thought you got free rent with your new job as a caretaker?
Why on earth a VW bus? If you want to trade in for a cheaper car that's one thing, but why trade in for a gas guzzling behemoth which is still gonna need tires, gas, and repairs. I understand possibly trying to go WITHOUT a car, or trading down to a beater maybe, but don't understand trading in a car for a bus.
Lastly, if you're keeping your phones just to use as a camera, (and you don't need them as a phone) you can get a digital camera for less than $100. It's a one-time outlay of cash, but there is no ongoing contract. Once you pay for it your're done.
You live where you work now, right? Can you go without a car at all? Makes more sense that buying a bus to me...
BACK IN AGAIN WITH NEW COMMENTS. I agree with what everyone said. Why can't your wife do some work on the side? OR work nights while you are with the kids? Or take in some babysitting kids?
IS the store only 2 miles away? Why can't you walk? Or go twice a month and take a cab.
And I thought that free rent was a perk of this job. If you make $1200 more a month but have to spend almost $1000 on rent now, that's not a very good change.
So I think you should NOT get the bus. I think you should see if you CAN sell your car. I think you need to get a second job or your wife needs to start working somewhere -- fast food, walgreens, ANYWHERE. I think you should nix the cell plan. Also the Starbucks budget. You need to make "fun" a priority, but "fun" can be free or cheap. Even a netflix subscription is only like $10 month.
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:08 pm 1330711730
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:09 pm 1330711789
What does your wife think of the idea of ditching your car? What does she think of the idea of ditching the cell phones?
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:15 pm 1330712106
I'll stop now
March 2nd, 2012 at 06:21 pm 1330712474
What does your wife think of the idea of ditching your car? What does she think of the idea of ditching the cell phones?
Oh yeah, another idea for getting to the store. If there are sidewalks put your daughter in a stroller or wagon. The stroller or wagon will help carry groceries home anyway. Maybe one person could stay home with daughter while the other goes to the store.
March 2nd, 2012 at 07:14 pm 1330715645
Yes, we could go without a car for a while. The grocery store (Grocery Outlet) is two miles away, but it is uphill and a 1,000 foot elevation change, at least. It would be pretty difficult to safely do so with the little on in-tow.
We are not opposed to going without a car. We are thinking about it, as it would allow us to save money to get a better, more reliable bus. The bus is a dream we have had. However, if we do go about this dream, I don't want to regret it. We want to be able to take it out on the weekends when we want. Not have it stuck up on a jack being worked on all the time. So, I am beginning to think that if we go without a vehicle for a few months, we could be able to afford an even better bus within a year or so. It will suck not being able to go anywhere on a whim, but we have lived that way before. Just don't want to live that way forever, ya know?
Also, Bucky, the living situation we were in before was... Oppressive. Do you remember? This is bar far so much better!
@Joan.of.the.Arch Yes, we could ditch the phones, get cheaper ones, and tote them around as simply cameras... However, who does that? People don't like to carry a lot of stuff. Phone, keys, wallet. Haha. We are still discussing the phones. Wife is absolutely opposed to it. I am somewhat open to it. I apologize for our unwavering attitudes.
--
I think I responded to all of the comments/questions. Sorry if I did not!
Really, all, I am TRYING to take your advice! It is just hard. Haha. We're young. And stubborn. Please don't take it personally. I value ALL of your opinions and advice.
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:09 pm 1330718986
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:12 pm 1330719151
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:21 pm 1330719708
2 miles isn't a long walk -- that's how far I take my dog for a stroll in the evenings. Get a rolling cart and you guys can walk to the grocery store.
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:24 pm 1330719843
But there is a Target right next to us. We may get our groceries there instead, while we are without a vehicle.
The wife does have a full time job. She manages the apartment and the one-year old.
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:36 pm 1330720619
I'm just looking back at your insurance blog post. Your insurance went up by $60 a month because of the move. The fact that you feel that selling the car is your only option over $60 tells me you are cutting your budget way too close. And you don't have to do this. You have other places to cut. You have the ability to make money in other places.
I'm not against you selling the car and saving for a different vehicle, but you do need to consider having an emergency fund in place, getting your debt paid off and saving for retirement.
I don't follow the logic of wanting a different vehicle because your insurance went up by $60 per month. I would follow the we are paying over $300 a month for a car we only drive 20 miles a month. That is a lot for 20 miles. I get that.
And it would be better to save that money or use it to pay off debt before buying a new more expensive vehicle...unless your income increases.
March 2nd, 2012 at 08:49 pm 1330721357
However, I think you really need to acknowledge that, even though your income and situation are much better, they aren't at a place where you can have all of these things. I really feel you're not at a good place to get an antique gas-guzzling car. Nor should you really consider it until you have enough room in your "wants" category for it -- you have to admit it's a "want." Same with the smartphone contract -- using it for photos and blogging, even though those are both important to you, doesn't qualify them as a "need." If your student loans are in deferment, you're not yet in a place where you can afford these wants -- you ought to get in a much more secure place first.
I think until you get your lifestyle balanced -- either by lowering your expenses or raising your income -- you can't have everything you want. (Even though as I say they are all fairly modest wants. Just not where you are.)
I hope it doesn't sound harsh. You are so young and you can afford to make mistakes and still have plenty of time to fix them, so it's not the end of the world if you thumb your nose at all of us and get your van and keep your smartphones. But take it from my personal experience -- the bigger/more mistakes you make when you're young, the longer you'll be paying for them.
March 2nd, 2012 at 09:00 pm 1330722050
I only have $1,800 left on the loan to pay. Other than that, our ONLY other debts are the car and credit cards (that we had to use when we moved).
Once the car is gone, I really want to start paying down those cards and continuing payment on the student loan, while at the same time building a nest egg and a bus fund.
I should crunch numbers and come up with amounts to put towards what when/if this car does sell.
March 2nd, 2012 at 09:05 pm 1330722339
March 3rd, 2012 at 12:59 am 1330736386
I can't load your budget thing, but you said you can't give up your internet. Well, can you cut it down to that antiquated thing called dial up? It still exists and is far cheaper. Then you'd still have email and the ability to blog. Yeah, you'd have to give up streaming and speed, but it won't be forever. Some cities have free hot spots, most libraries have free internet as well, so you might even find you can give up the dial-up after a while.
As for walking to the grocery store, if you think it's unsafe to take the baby, why do all three of you need to go? Why can't one of you walk there while the other stays home with the baby and take a cab home with the groceries? I find that the more people that go into the grocery store, the more groceries come out of it, some of them not needed.
On the car, sell it. Get something cheap, a $1000 to $2000 car that will be fully paid for (which will lower your insurance) and only drive it sparingly. To the grocery store. To the doctor's office. Ford Crown Victoria's from the early to mid 90's are in that price range, are an excellent family car, and most were maintained very well because the were driven by older drivers (the ease of steering was marketed to the arthritic) who didn't put many miles on and took them in often to socialize at the dealership (hint from a couple of mechanics and car salesmen I know). Driving few miles will also lower your insurance, though not until you've been on it for six months or so.
The cell phones? That's an excuse. You can take pictures on the cell phone without having a contract and get them off later on when you can afford service again. Or some can be transferred if they have the right kind of memory card without service. Meanwhile get cheap pay as you go phones for safety reasons.
If you want entertainment you can get movies and books on CD from the library for free. You may not want to but that is not the point. You moved here to make a better life for your child. Don't mess that up by making choices now that will make your life so much harder later.
You will be moving up in your job in a year or two, right? It's short-term. Focus on where you want to be and it will help you be less focused on where you are at the moment. It will pay off and be worth it, but you have to make the choice now.
March 3rd, 2012 at 02:44 pm 1330785895
March 4th, 2012 at 12:05 am 1330819545
You can get tons of used clothes from friends. Tell them you need baby clothes and hand me downs. I do it all the time and we don't "need" it but I hate the idea of spending more money than I need. I donate and give away when we're done as well as loan out whatever I can to friends.
March 4th, 2012 at 01:01 am 1330822914
We are prepping the car for sale. We have bicycles, a bicycle trailer, and feet. We are ready to make the carless plunge.
March 4th, 2012 at 04:54 am 1330836866
March 4th, 2012 at 05:51 am 1330840277
March 4th, 2012 at 05:53 am 1330840407
"The wife does have a full time job. She manages the apartment and the one-year old."
This is a lovely sentiment and I appreciate that raising a kid and taking care of a household isn't trivial.
However -- that doesn't mean that she necessarily has the luxury to make that choice. At least not in the situation where less than a hundred dollars a month stands between you and falling back into debt.
Plenty of people in your situation would have both a full time job and a part time job. You are in the sort of situation where it could all fall apart pretty quickly. Or it could really turn around for you. Like LuckyRobin says, now is the time to sacrifice so that you get started on your new life on a good foot.
So again, can you or she work a few shifts night times somewhere for some extra cash? Can she baby sit? There are lots of things that a stay at home mom can do to earn some money. Look at some of the people on this board who work two or three jobs to make ends meet. Expecting to make your life work on a single income might not be reasonable right now and one of you might have to work somewhere else -- at least for a while -- until you can get into a better place financially.
If $60 a month was the difference between falling deeper into debt or not, and if you were already having to defer student loans, I think that she should consider picking up some nighttime or weekend shifts, when you'll be home with the baby anyway. I would certainly consider that if I were in her shoes.
March 4th, 2012 at 05:59 am 1330840752
Our budget shows the MINIMUMS. That is, I estimate 10% for what is taken from our paychecks (8% is about actual). Also, I have not yet worked under 40 hours at this job. This week alone I got 3.75 hours of overtime at 1.5x the normal wages.
We are not as bad off as it looks. But there is definitely room for improvement, and we are working on that.
March 4th, 2012 at 06:47 am 1330843651
Edit: Two pay-as-you-go phones (AT&T GoPhones) for $50/mo ($25/ea). Includes 250 min and unlimited text/pic/video. I think we could do that...
I figure, if we get cheaper phones, we could sell my iPhone 4S for at least $450 and her 3GS for at least $100, and be able to two brand new iPods for even cheaper. Then we would have all of our great apps that we don't WANT to live without, for waaaaaay cheaper.
Excuse the school-boyishness, but I am actually getting pretty excited over this. Is that weird?
March 4th, 2012 at 03:31 pm 1330875113
March 4th, 2012 at 05:33 pm 1330882398
Are you really living within your means if you aren't paying back your student loans and saving for retirement or emergencies?
March 4th, 2012 at 05:44 pm 1330883065
I know.
@creditcardfree
Oh, I know that is all you guys want. That, and more minions to serve the SavingAdvice empire. ;P
I appreciate you all sticking with it and not giving up on us. Haha. I know we can be stubborn!
So, we just have to figure out what to do about the early termination fee for our contacts. It is $325. My wife's contract is almost up. Mine still has 20 months left. So I am thinking - sell the iPhones first in order to pay for the ETF.
March 4th, 2012 at 08:57 pm 1330894665
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130659332542?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_5310wt_1240
March 4th, 2012 at 08:58 pm 1330894683
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130659332542?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:...
March 4th, 2012 at 11:05 pm 1330902328
March 4th, 2012 at 11:10 pm 1330902611
I have been wanting to start one. My employer offers 401(k) with match. I will be looking into that in two months, but enrollment will have passed by then.
I also want to open a college fund for the wee one.
March 5th, 2012 at 04:09 am 1330920585
I still think that if you can't contribute anything to your retirement, you are deferring your student loans, and you are considering selling your car because if a $60 increase in insurance rates, you have to consider making some bigger changes.
And PLEASE don't even CONSIDER a college fund until you are WELL on track with your retirement. It's lovely to be able to contribute to your kid's education, but you have to also remember that while there are many options for college (loans, grants, scholarships, ROTC, and a number of state school incentives) there is no one out there who will offer you any help with your retirement. No one gives out loans and scholarships for retirement.
I know that you were in a bad situation, and I know that you making $1,200 more now, but you are also spending $1,000 on rent now. So you're making $200 more, and you undertook an expensive move to a place with a higher cost of living.
I think these can all be good things -- but I still stand by my previous recommendations. One of you needs another (paying) job. You should definitely try to get along without the car. You should trade in your "fun" budget for movies from the library or a $10 Netflix account. You should scrap the phones. Don't even consider a college account right now. Get your expenses down, your income up, and start paying down your debt and contributing to your retirement.
I think you could be doing great, but I agree with others that you could really make some progress by buckling down now while it's still easy to live frugally.
March 5th, 2012 at 07:12 am 1330931557
Internet is available at all libraries and nearly free at WIFI locations. Given your income, you may be eligible for supported day care costs while your wife re-joins the work force. You need to seriously tackle your deficits 1. establish an emergency fund, 2. student loan repayment, 3. retirement savings program which are most valuable when established early.
March 6th, 2012 at 01:34 am 1330997671
Ceejay was right on.
Hey, I've been doing tedious online surveys for most of the past 2 years and if you''re diligent, you can earn $100 a month, tax-free. Your wife could do that at home, from the computer, day or night. If she's the disciplined, persistent type. If she gets bored easily, it won't be for her, but it's something, especially for someone who would find leaving home for a regular job would be difficult.
I really wouldn't worry about the kid's college fund now. Yes, it's important, but you've got enough on your plate and you probably can't do it all on your current income.
March 6th, 2012 at 01:38 am 1330997930
There sure has been a lot of great advice here.
It is a bit sad (to us) using our "dumb" phones. They are so clunky and unsophisticated. But you know what's great? We are not tied to them!
March 6th, 2012 at 03:04 am 1331003086
Canceled the iPhone contracts! WOOHOO! Oh, and guess what! It was only $369 to cancel. I tried to get them to waive it, especially since I was staying with AT&T by way of their GoPhones, but they would not. "/ They tried offering me a bunch of savings and even a plan that doesn't exist for customers that don't try to cancel. But, anyways... Only $369, compared to the projected $410. Still $369 too much, but hey - we won't have to worry about that anymore.
I did find out that you can use iPhones as prepaid phones, so long as you're okay with only having data while on WiFi. But, alas, we need to sell mine to help cover the cost of that ETF.
Shipping the wife's iPhone tomorrow.
Mine still has not sold, though I have gotten a lot of offers.
As for the car... I have a new driver side mirror on the way, as it was broken off before we moved. Also, need to find a reasonably cheap stereo to put in, as the other one is blown. Hoping for a stock stereo, as they can be had for around $20-50 if you buy from someone posting on a Ford Focus forum.
March 12th, 2012 at 08:03 pm 1331582597
March 20th, 2012 at 07:55 pm 1332273337
I just wanted to tell you that I adored the VW in your picture, it is a real beauty, and I wouldn¢t blame you if you were tempted to sell a 5-year old car for a car from the 70s.
Another great idea would be not just to try and sell your Ford Focus, but also find a VW Motorhome and make it your mobile home and save in this way a lot of money from your rent. Lots of people choose to live in mobile homes nowadays and they can be proud of saving a small fortune from not having to pay rent, bills etc. On top of that, it is a totally different experience to be able to freely move wherever you want and take your home with you. Your kid will also love the idea.
March 21st, 2012 at 01:49 am 1332294543
But, yes, we are considering it for when I am further in my career and we are even more of the free spirits we are striving to be.